- jamesosteenAsked on July 11, 2013 at 02:24 AM
This is in response to this forum:
Please make a non-branded domain alternative for the sender email address rather than something from jotform.com. Something generic like firstname.lastname@example.org. That way our clients arent getting notices from jotform and asking us questions like who is jotform. Plus something generic like emailsubmissions.com doesnt look as fishy since you are going to stop spoofing and make us use your domain for the sender.
I understand you are working on SMTP, but if you read my response in the forum above it will tell you why you need to consider this option as well. You have a large client base with various levels of experience and I can assure you that several do not know anything about their SMTP settings. Give them another option like this that is easy for them to control and change from within the Jotform interface. That way you can offer multiple solutions to your customers and let them decide which is the best one for them.
And as I'm sure you know this is a very urgent matter as I myself have spent the entire day answering questions from my clients as to what email@example.com is and why its the sender email address. They are not pleased because it is creating confusion. If my clients arent pleased, I'm not pleased and if I'm not pleased that means one of your customers that isnt pleased. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
- bedandbiscuitAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 02:51 AM
You are not alone, it is creating a lot of problem for me too, I hope it will be fixed fast.
- JotForm SupportMorianAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 03:46 AM
I have already forwarded this request to our developers. Thanks!
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 04:09 AM
Honestly, if we have both non-brand version and release SMTP version? (which is ready by the way, just doing final testing) Which one will you use?
Over the years what I found that many people say things like "it would be great if there was this feature", and they don't even use it when released. In this case, you are requesting this on behalf of unknown JotForm users who can't setup email clients.
It might sound easy to just create a non-brand version but setting up an email account to send tens of thousands of emails reliably everyday is not actually as easy as going to godaddy and buying mysubmissions.com.
I am not against the idea. We will probably implement it. Let's first finish the SMTP option first and see if there is a need for a non-brand domain.
- shuishAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 05:21 AM
The problem has mainly come from the fact that we were not advised of this change before it was made. Personally I will not be using the SMTP feature, it was fine the way it was before. If people were abusing it they should be punished, not us who pay for the PROFESSIONAL plan and have over 300 forms!
I've had so many complaints, people losing business etc in the last few days about people not realising the change and just hitting reply on the submission because all the "Reply-to Email" field has changed to none without being advised. I really don't know why this was stopped too? Can you update all of my forms please to set it back to the email address they fill in to the reply email
- jamesosteenAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 07:25 AM
Yes I realize that some people will not use the non-branded domain option (just like some will not use the SMTP option), but I am like the 3rd or 4th person now that has mentioned it (link to the previous thread where it was first suggested). There ARE situations in which I would use SMTP and sometimes the non-branded alternative. I have a client now that has a rather confusing situation with part of the hosting and email at one company and part of their hosting (a portal) with another. They want it that way and believe it or not but the group that provides their hosting and email has a rather bad SMTP service that will not work for them. So I would simply use the non-branded option in their case. It will be nice to have options rather than forcing one option on everyone. You say I'm requesting this on behalf of unknown jotform users...isn't that the point? When other users submit ideas and sugegestions to make your service more flexible and better it's on behalf of unknown Jotform users so not sure what you're getting at there?
Yes it does sound easy because I've done it more than once. Setting up a new / secondary domain on an email server really isn't hard at all. Is it the flip of the switch or as easy as registering a new domain as you put it? Well ofcourse not...no one said it was. But it's also not as difficult as you are making it sound. It's simply another step you can take to rectify the situation and help yoru customers. This is not easy on use either so if you have to get your hands a little dirty and do a few different things then so be it. More options will help everyone get through this. Being against ideas because they may not be as easy as flip a switch (but also not very difficult either) is also not the way to approach the situation.
I believe this will become more and more of an issue as people realize what occured. I didnt know until I started to have clients tell me. That is a problem. As shuish put it, why was this not mentioned ahead of time? The change was made and all of the replyto addresses were also wiped out and jotform users were left in the dark. Nothing was said about this change and we're having to find out about it by our clients telling us and being upset about losing potential business? Poor communication.
This is a very delicate situation and we're trying to work with you guys. I really only see two options at this point (and only two have really been submitted by the jotform community) and those are allow SMTP option and provide a non-branded substitute for those who dont want to worry about running it through their own SMTP server. So it seems to me it would be rather smart business wise to offer both of these as solutions to help everyone get through this. Let's not force one option on everyone and say do it or else. As you say, "I'm not against the idea" and let's wait and see if "there is a need for a non-brand domain". I'm telling you there will be a need for both. I think you are taking the wrong tone with this idea. It was already blown off in the thread I mentioned above and now we are mentioning it again. This is a very urgent matter to those of us getting upset clients and hearing from you let's wait and see is very troubling. This really should have been thought of before you pulled out the rug from below your customers and these options should have been available and known before the change was even made. Then we could have made the necessary changes and been on our way without having all of the upset clients telling us that the change occured and then us trying to work with you guys in trying to find a solution. Poor planning, poor communication, and poor execution TBH.
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 07:46 AM
OK, I am convinced without reading your reply. Got formresponse.com. Setting it up. Will ship it today. :)
- shuishAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 07:49 AM
Suggest you do read his James' well written reply. What about the reply to email address issue, can you change all our forms back so that the submission notification can be replied to by clients as that's what the clients are complaining about.
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 07:50 AM
shuish: "If people were abusing it they should be punished"
We do punish spammers. But, what we were doing was also wrong. Sending fake emails from your email address is possible because of the architecture of the internet but it is not the correct way to do things.
- shuishAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 07:51 AM
...Ok, and the reply to email address? can that be changed back on all my forms please
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 07:52 AM
"What about the reply to email address issue"
We never made a change on reply-to. You can always setup your reply-to address as you wish. There has been no change on this.
- shuishAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 08:01 AM
Suggest you read some more posts on here then as I'm not the only one with this issue since the weekend. Before all my forms were set to reply to the email address filled in on the form. Now that has magically changed to "none"? Please can you change it back on all forms. This is what my clients are annoyed about as they have replied to notifications as normal but the email has gone to the noreply address without them knowing. You can see by my activity that i have updated some of the forms but i dont have the time to update over 300 forms unnecessarily
- jamesosteenAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 08:20 AM
@shuish, not the answer you want to hear, but the fastest way to correct the issue will probably be for you to go through and correct the reply to email yourself. I did it on my forms last night. Sorry bud.
@aytekin, First off, thank you for listening and for implementing the non-branded domain idea. In the end I think it will be a great feature that your customers will appreciate.
Secondly, you may not be aware and it may not have been intended, but yes ReplyTo emails were changed by the system. It appears when the custom sender email was removed it reset all forms Reply-to email addresses to none. That seems to have been the biggest problem about this whole thing. Not only were our customer now seeing the firstname.lastname@example.org email address as the sender, but when people responded to these emails it sent them to email@example.com rather than the original replyto email addresses we had set. I had to go in and reset all of my ReplyTo address from none back to what I originally had in there. I don't know if this was a system wide thing or only a random error in select customer accounts, but I can attest to what shuish is saying; replyto addresses were reset by the system.
- chris_hillsAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 10:44 AM
Please reset the email send to the way it used to be. I need emails from my website forms to be sent from the user sending the form, not a fixed address.
This then integrates with my Sharepoint system.
Unless this capability exists (if Ive missed something) I cannot use Jotform for my system - simpe!
Why didnt you tell us you were doing this - Ive just lost client tracking for the last 2 days as a result!!
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 12:18 PM
shuish: We will manually fix all of your 300+ forms. I think the problem is that you did not have a reply-to set. You were only using Sender Address and when we had to remove that feature this has caused the form reply-to's to brake.
We will change reply-to addresses to the email fields on your forms and we will also change the sender address to firstname.lastname@example.org
This should take a day. So, thanks for your patience.
jamesosteen: Non-branded domain formresponse.com is now live. You can use that as sender address on your emails now.
chris_hills: Are you sure that Sharepoint does not look at the reply-to address? Can you try setting the reply-to field to the email field on your form and see if that works? If it does not work please open a new thread about it and I'll try to help you with that. Since this thread is about the non-brand email sender address let's discuss that issue in a new thread.
- chris_hillsAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 08:44 PMI am absolutely 100% sure sharepoint doesn’t use the reply to address to identify who sent the email! Otherwise I would not have spent half a day trying to work out how to rebuild the system based on you overnight change to Jotform which has made it now unusable.
Please confirm whether you will be able to give me this functionality back or please recommend another form generator which will allow me this feature as without it I cant use Jotform any more!
- c3tbAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 10:07 PM
jamesosteen: You are not alone! I have this problem as well! I manage about a dozen websites, and they all use Jotform. I wish there was something more unbranded, or branded to our own emaill addresses, like: email@example.com
- jamesosteenAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 11:09 PM
@c3tb - they now have a more unbranded option - firstname.lastname@example.org. Enjoy.
- pdspdsAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 11:32 PM
I have this problem as well! por favor solucionar
- JotForm SupportEltonCrisAnswered on July 11, 2013 at 11:56 PM
We'd appreciate if you could please open a separate thread for your issue.
- chris_hillsAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 03:46 AMI have a opened 2 thread for this issue.
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 03:54 AM
We have re-enabled the Sender Address for existing forms with Sender Address set. It is not possible to set Sender Address on new forms/notifications but existing works will keep working as before.
shuish & chris_hills: This should fix your problem with replying emails.
- jamesosteenAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 04:03 AM
When will that go into effect because my old forms do not have the Sender Address re-enabled at the time of me typing this. Just curious.
Neither do mine.
Also, we create / clone new forms for new clients almost on a daily basis - what do we do moving forward?
The solution Jotform has created does not work with Exchange - what do we do ?
- shuishAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 04:49 AM
Nope, my old forms reply to address are still set to "none"
When will this come into effect?
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 07:49 AM
It is in effect. I checked a few forms and this is working.
If you have modified the email settings than the Sender Address feature might be disabled. Please open a new & private forum thread and let me know the forms that has this and I will check the Sender Address for you.
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 07:53 AM
"Also, we create / clone new forms for new clients almost on a daily basis - what do we do moving forward?
The solution Jotform has created does not work with Exchange - what do we do ?"We will look into that. I don't know if it is possible to support Exchange. We will give it a try.
- markashtonAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 08:08 AM
As Exchange is a global standard ... you are probably advised to give it a try ;-)
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 08:21 AM
We have decided to allow Verified email addresses to be used Sender Address. This will solve the Exchange problem.
So, when you want to add a Sender Address we will send you an email confirmation. The email will contain a passcode. You will copy this passcode to the confirmation page and if it is correct your email address will be verified, and you will be able to use that email address as Sender Address on any of your forms.
- markashtonAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 10:42 AM
Now that is a world-class bit of thinking ... Steve Jobs would have been proud of you ;-)
So ... it's all back to the old method but with a verification step .... am I correct?
- chris_hillsAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 11:16 AM
This is a good solution for exchange users.
However, it does not solve the situation where any one of 4,000 clients who can send in a form, including filling in their email address on the sorm which needs to be picked up in teh email sender box, to us by email - I dont think your solution allows us to track their emails as the email sender does it? We still have to pre-select the senders email addresses?
I think this is a step forward but does not solve the fundamental problem.
- JotForm FounderaytekinAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 11:57 AM
markashton: So ... it's all back to the old method but with a verification step .... am I correct?
chris_hills: Please open a new private thread and I will find a solution for your case.
- jamesosteenAnswered on July 12, 2013 at 12:16 PM
Now this is great customer service. The commuication and execution of the policy change could have been better, but the work after the fact has been good. Now your customers have several different options and that is a great thing!