Differences between Firefox and IE... again.

  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Asked on November 30, 2011 at 04:10 AM

    This is a very urgent problem...

    I mentionned a few weeks ago that IE did not behave on the same manner than Firefox does... The problem was at that time related to multiple upload button. This was solved, and we started to use Jotform for all our official communications.

    Now I see that since a few days we get strange answers, and the expected data does not fit the rules we created in Jotform. After some investigation, it seems that the forms filled with Firefox are correct, but IE makes a mess of it... This is more than annoying.

    I send you a screenshot (waht a pity I cannot send multiple screenshots in order to let you compare both...) of teh IE results.

    There are several mistakes...  but if you try the form with Firevox, you will see this immediately.

    I suspect it has something to do with secure forms, as IE seems to give a security warning.

    Could you please have a closer look on this as soon as possible. We really get in trouble (we are the official Benelux Office for Intellectual Property) with some legal aspects for our business due to this major bug.

     

     

  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Answered on November 30, 2011 at 06:45 AM

    I forgot to mention that you have to go to the Dutch page to see the same form... The English one is just a subset.

    I will open a second topic with the screenshot under Firefoz (the correct one). Please merge both topics..

  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on November 30, 2011 at 09:50 AM

    Adding BBIE screenshot from other thread: 

     

  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on November 30, 2011 at 09:53 AM

    I see you have a lot of javascript on your webpage which may be conflicting with JotForm code causing these issues on your webpage.

    Would it be possible to use the Iframe Embed for the form on your webpage to see if it helps rectify the situation? 

    This method is explained here, option 4.

  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Answered on November 30, 2011 at 10:50 AM

    Thanks for your reaction.

    We tried the Iframe embed (even if we do not like is, as we use one form which is used for different purposes..., so it can be very short or very long, according to the choices made by the visitor).

    But we have exactly the same problem.

    I made another temporary change (I made this already before your answer): I changed one of the buttons accepting multiple uploads in a single upload, flushed the cache, and it worked (at the express condition IE is in compatibility mode)...

    So I suspect that the problem still refers to some bug in the multiple upload button.

    The strange thing is however, that all multiple upload buttons are hidden in this specific case.

    Unfortunately, we need multiple uploads in some other cases...

    I realize the form is rather sophisticated, and as such subject to problems, especially with IE. But as we cannot ignore this thing, we have to find some work around.

    The business wants to show only one form on the website, just for custorme ease. If we could call another form within Jotform, I guess the problem would be easier to solve. But I guess this is not possible.

    So we have not so many possible choices. Any suggestion...?

  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on November 30, 2011 at 11:06 AM

    Is it specific versions of IE that seem to be affected?

    To be totally honest, I am not quite grasping exactly whats going on. I need to do a couple of tests of my own on a browser on which the issue becomes apparent. You said you have made a change to the form? Is that correct? Can you replicate the issue on a test page or something? Just so that I can get a better understanding of exactly whats going on.

    If there is indeed a bug, not related to the javascript on your webpage, I would really like to properly identify and understand it, then have our developers to fix it.

    Another note: You can actually call/show another Form within a Form depending on users selections in the first form. How do you think that capability would help?

     

  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Answered on November 30, 2011 at 12:53 PM

    I just created a form called Clone of Contacs (http://www.jotform.com/?formID=13334428260).

    We use the version 8 of IE (I do not have the details, as I am home for the moment).

    I forgot to tell you that the problem occurs also in preview in IE 8 (without compatibility mode). And when we tested it a few days ago, it was perfect...

    Some fields do not appear, and hidden fields appear... For instance, we need image formats for logos to be sent to us, and IE just shows another button, where we only accept PDF documents.

    I suspect that some rules are not interpreted correctly. So, if I could split the fields on the form on several ones (with possibility to call one form from anotherone), I imagine I could use one form as a kind of menu, and from there call simplified forms, one for each purpose. This would dramatically reduce the amount of conditions and make the maintenance easier while visually it would look like one single form.

    But I could not find how to call another form... So I did not test the possibility and I am not sure it would solve the problem... Of course, I would prefer not changing anything, and to have IE bevaving just as Firefox, Chrome or Safari...

  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on November 30, 2011 at 03:53 PM

    OK, I am trying to deal with this issue as quickly as is possible. 

    --

    I am tempted to try and build up the conditions again, using only SHOW fields in the conditions. It is possible that the some where along the line, a HIDE condition is breaking something in IE. 

    I am going to try and build up the conditions manually myself on a cloned version of your form. Even if my guess as regards whats causing this glitch isnt right, at least I should be able to source where exactly along the process of creating the conditions 'breaks' the form in IE. 

    I am sure you understand this is going to be quite an involved process, so any help posting what fields should be getting shown on each option would be of great help. 

    I am starting at the all the potential options for Betreft


  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on November 30, 2011 at 09:19 PM

    OK, I have spent quite some time going through your conditions.

    Your forms conditions are almost overwhelmingly complicated; I am almost certain that the issue on IE8 is caused (i.e a bug is being introduced) by 'overlapping' conditions or use of the HIDE a field feature where it isnt necessary.

    I am about half ways through rebuilding your forms conditions using only SHOW fields options, trying to make the conditions as basic as possible.

    Its probably going to take me another few hours to work through, I should have it completed by tomorrow evening, then hopefully my hunch is correct about what is causing the problem with your form on IE8 and you will be able to clone my form back into yours and make use of it. 

    This is my progress so far: -> http://www.jotform.com/form/13333723351

    And a copy of my working sheet listing all the conditions on your form (so far): http://pastie.org/2947376

    Please forgive my Dutch :) 

  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Answered on December 01, 2011 at 02:06 AM

    Thanks a lot for having done all that work while I was sleeping...

    I will have a look on the modifications you have made. I am sure you understand better my request from a few months ago to have a mechanism to sort the conditions... I realize it is becoming a nightmare.

    I keep you informed.

    And thanks again for the really great help you provide to all your customers. This should be an example for all cloud solution providers.

     

    to be continued...

  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Answered on December 01, 2011 at 03:37 AM

    I have removed in all forms the possibility to send multiple forms.

    Now it is working in IE just like in Firefox...

    I can suggest you to stop working on my specific forms (and is some cases the HIDE function is the only solution, if you want to avoid 25 conditions on basic fields like name, address,...)

    I am rather sure the problem comes from the multiple uploads button. There was already a bug a few weeks ago (I could not save the forms anymore...), so I suspect there is another bug in the same function which causes the current problems.

    The workaround I found (not allowing multiple uploads) is not a solution for the future, as I need in some cases to allow it, because in some case multiples documents are required.

    Can you please keep me informed about the evolution of this issue.

    At least we can use the forms now... even if we miss a function (which is not the most used anyway...)

     

    Thanks again for your support.

  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on December 01, 2011 at 10:24 AM

    That great news that you managed to find a workaround yourself BBIE.

    Yes, I was most likely, going to sit down and create SHOW conditions for all those basic fields, cant say I was exactly looking forward to it :)

    Now, so I can report this bug properly, its when allowing Multiple Uploads that somehow appears to break your conditions in IE? 

    Do you still have a copy of the original form that was broken until the multiple upload ability was removed? what was the name of the field(s) with the multiple upload functionality?

    I am sure you understand that if i can see exactly for myself what exactly does cause the problem on IE, the better my bug report will be hopefully giving the developers a precise understanding of the issue, in the hope that they are able to resolve relatively quickly. 

    ---

    On another thought, should you need multiple files to uploaded, perhaps you could just add a couple of extra single upload fields? Your conditions are already very complex, another few may not hurt. Just a suggestion. 

    --

  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Answered on December 01, 2011 at 10:59 AM

    Thanks again for you reaction.

    Of course we could use multiple "single uploads", but the thing is that in some cases we simply do not know if people have to send one or more documents. It could be a workaround, but it might be confusing for the visitors.

    If you use the form http://www.jotform.com/form/13334428260 , you can easily reproduce the bug.

    The most obvious case is if you chose the followint options:

    Betreft: Benelux merk

    Benelux merk: Nasturen van een afbeelding.

     

    You will see that in Explorer (we use version 8.0.6001.18702 (!!!) the following fields are missing:

    Merk

    Depot- of spoedinschrijvingsnummer

    and the field "Mee te sturen afbeelding." where we expect only jpg, gif or png documents is missing, but replaced by the multiple upload button wher we expect only PDF documents.

     

    To explain a bit what it means (as I understand you Dutch is not perfect), we are the official office for registration of trademarks in the Benelux (we cover 3 countries: Belgium Netherlands and Luxemburg).

    The aim of the form (in the above mentionned configuration) is to give our applicants the possibility to send us the correct logo corresponding to their trademark.

    The fields that are missing are the Trademark number and the Trademark name which are essential. And our regulation states that images must be sent in one of the accepted formats (jpg, gif or pmg), but all other documents must be in PDF... And you understand the confusion if the applicants only can send PDF documents when they want send us images... and we do not accept those PDF's as an image for our register...

    Again the 3 other browsers are working properly.

    I hope this will help you to create the ticket.

    And yes, you are right... The forms could be less complex... Only thing is that our business requires all the functionality. And this is part of our choice for Jotform. It works perfectly.

    We would of course be helped by some nice features like for instance the possibility to sort the conditions, or at least that the conditions could be displayed in the order the concerned fields are in the form. This would help us to avoid to have multiple conditions over the same field. (I guess I suppressed all those cases, but it is difficult to avoid this kind of things...)

    May be you could add us to some reference list later, just to show your prospects that complex forms can be handled easily (...?) with Jotform...

     

    Best regards,

  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on December 04, 2011 at 04:21 PM

     

    Hello,

    Sorry about the delay getting back to you on this, I wanted to sit down and give it some proper thought & attention.

    I have replicated the issue that you have had with your conditions & fields which allow multiple uploads. And yes, I notice all you have to do to 'fix' the issue with the conditions is to remove the 'multiple upload' facility in those fields.

    I have opened a bug report with our developers on the issue, I will report back here if there is anything that can be done. I have done some researching of similar issues on the forum and from our email logs, I have seen refererence to similar issues before. i.e adding particular sets of fields/features to a form 'breaks' IE.

    Unfortunately, in that research, I notice that the developer were unable to find any solution. I have however went ahead and reported the bug you found and asked them if they could revisit the issue.

    -- 
    On your second issue I have created a feature request ticket to find out if we can have the conditions wizard show its conditions in the same order of the relevant fields appear on the form. I will report back here if the developers think it is possible and if they feel its a change worth considering.
    On this sorting of conditions facility, whilst I do agree even in simpler forms than yours managing conditions can become confusing, i cant think of what we would use to sort the conditions by. Do you have any thoughts on that? If i can find some clarity in my own thoughts of how exactly the feature would work, I will open a seperate feature request for this. 
  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Answered on December 28, 2011 at 09:58 AM

    I was wondering if there is any progress in this matter?

    Did you developer find the time to look on the issue with multiple uploads under IE8?

  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on December 28, 2011 at 06:18 PM

    Hello BBIE,

    I havent heard anything back RE: my bug report, which probably isnt a good sign, there is at least two other IE8 related bugs with multiple uploads that the developers just havent been able to resolve.

    But, I have flagged the issue with JotForms owners to see if we can find some kind of conclusion to this issue. 

  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on January 05, 2012 at 01:49 PM

    Hello BBIE,

    The developers got back to me on this issue and said that by adding an extra field a cloned version of the form seems to work OK (on IE8 with multiple uploads) 

    You know more about the functionality of the form than I do, can you confirm that its any closer to the functionality that you are looking for?

    http://www.jotform.com/form/20011852698

  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Answered on January 06, 2012 at 02:30 AM

    Thank you for this post.

    I have had a look on the link and indeed the fields seem to appear like they are intented to do.

    Is the only thing de developers did just adding this field...? This seems very strange to me, especially because the forms were working correctly until we discovered the bug (which has probably been introduced after an update of IE8).
    Could I have access to the source of this cloned form? Or is the addition of this field the only thing which was changed? Must this added field be a drop-down? And is there any logical explanation why it seems to work now...? Is there maybe another error in my own form which makes it working wrong...? May the added field be hidden? Can it be included in a condition... The workaround puts so many questions...

    Anyway, I cannot add a dummy field to the form, and I do not really feel confident with this solution which looks like a temporary workaround. Adopting this workaround will keep me stressed... what will happen with the first modification of the form or the next update of IE8.

    Did your guys try to remove this "dummy" field and consequently test the form again? I would expect the form to go wrong again, but it is not sure.

    For the time being, I added 2 single upload buttons to the specific form where we can expect more than one document. This is not ideal neither, but I trust this a bit more, as I do not use the problematic function of multiple uploads. I feel more quiet this way.

     

    Again it would be so nice if we could sort the conditions... Would make things much clearer.

    Thanks a lot for your efforts.

  • Profile Image
    fxr
    Answered on January 06, 2012 at 05:03 AM

    I just wanted to make sure the rest of the forms' functionality was sound after that small change. 

    Yes, all the developer did was add a new field, I am guessing the bug is located somewhere in how some of your dropdown menus are hidden. I have also asked the developer for clarification on why exactly adding that new field could 'fix' the rest of your form. 

    You can clone  the form and look at how the form is setup yourself. 

    We could hide the new field with some custom CSS and it wouldnt be shown in the final form. 

    I do understand your waryness of adopting this workaround for this bug you have found, but rectifying it by changing swathes of JotForm code is impractical. It is a peculiar case, a specific set off conditions on a multiple upload form on IE8.

    Our code works fine in the vast majority of cases, it really doesnt make practical sense to make alterations to JotForm to try to fix (even if it us ultimately fixable) what is for the most part a relatively isolated case. 

    I know that may sound like a brush off to a certain extent, but between the developer and I, we have spent a considerable amount of time thinking and dealing with your issue. I feel we have tried our very best to find some kind satisfactory solution for you. 

     

    What you need to decide is whether or not you want to use this workaround, I will provide you with some CSS to hide that 'dummy' field. Please let me know on that. 

    I will also revisit this issue of 'sorting conditions' and think about what options we may have there. 

  • Profile Image
    BBIE
    Answered on January 06, 2012 at 08:09 AM

    Thanks for coming back to me so quickly.

    This confirms once more the customer service of Jotform is really good. We are happy with this.

    I use Joforms since several years on my private website too (whisky-distilleries.info), and indeed I know the system is very stable on "normal" forms. And I am aware that the requirements of our business go far beyond normal requirements.

    I would not ask you to lose your time on fixing the bug of the multiple upload button for this specific situation.
    If you could fix IE itself... this would be different!

    The workaround I use now is nearly accepted by the business. So I guess we can close this case right now.

     

    And thanks for reviewing the sorting conditions. This would be a great improvement, even fo forms with a few conditions.