- CharlieAnswered on December 04, 2015 at 10:55 AM
I'm sorry, we're really having a hard time debugging your form because of it's length, I'm quite confused which of the forms you are actively using or is the current active one? I understand that you mentioned that it is cloned from the other form.
I presume this is the form: https://form.jotformeu.com/53324477398365? I'm currently working on it and will get back to you as soon as I see which part of the conditions is not working.
For the initial observation, I see there's two set of fields that has the same names on your form. I see two "Heeft u een vennootschap" on page.
- afckredietenAnswered on December 04, 2015 at 11:03 AM
Yes this is the right form. Now i'm updating all the update fields to text, i'm almost done.
You don't need to say that the form is long, that's one of the problems and its impact on the loading times in the admin pannel. But ok if i can get it working .....
Yes, i have multiple heeft u een vennootschap questions, becouse i need to ask this like that. In Belgium you can work for instance from 9-5 as an employee, but in the evening or weekend you can have a seccond job 'heeft u een bijberoep', which can be as an employee (for instance in a bar working as a waiter) and in the week as an sales rep for a firm. Or have an independant job (other statu) side job as for instance a gardner in the weekend. So i do need to ask this question heeft u een vennootschap for primary job, for heeft u een bijberoep, but also for the partner, for the co applicant and his/her partner
- afckredietenAnswered on December 04, 2015 at 11:23 AM
Sorry due to a question from my client to have a look at the backend so she can change some text and the way some questions are formulated (only text not removing or changing conditions)
i made a clone for the update of the conditions update fields
i changed them all to a-z (in the calculation field from the old condition wizard) and in advanced option i choose the always put text option.
And this for the whole form, and guess what............. it didn't work.
I was thinking perhaps because the ID and Name of the source fields are too simular for the update form fields to make them work, i will now change every ID and name so that there are more differnce in source and destination fields.
- afckredietenAnswered on December 04, 2015 at 11:25 AM
sorry i forget the link for the latest form https://form.jotformeu.com/53374605935360
- CharlieAnswered on December 04, 2015 at 11:31 AM
Now, upon further investigation, I see that the section "Bijberoep" only shows if "Heeft u een bijberoep" is set to "Ja".
The fields that are displayed includes "Type vennootschap", so it is not dependent on "Heeft u een bijberoep".
Here are the conditions:
Noticed here that when "Heeft u een bijberoep" is set to "Nee" it will HIDE the following.
If you click on it, it includes "Type vennootschap". The effect is, if it is set to "Ja", then it will do the reverse, which means it will display the fields including the "Type vennootschap".
If it is alright, here are my observations, this will somehow improve the loading and the conditional conflicts you have.
1. First, if you have a section you want to hide, I would advise maximizing the use of the form collapse field. Here's a guide: http://www.jotform.com/help/297-Show-or-Hide-multiple-fields-at-once-using-form-collapse-tool. With the use of the form collapse, you do not need to individually select each field, instead, they are just wrapped in one field (which is the form collapse bar/tool). This will not only improve the loading time but also the way you are organizing your conditions.
2. It would be best to use the "Show" field instead of "Hide". Using "Hide" is much more tricky and will most likely conflict with a code. And using the "Show" field is straight forward. With the use of "Show" and "Hide", there's a difference when using "Hide Multiple" and "Show Multiple".
Field 1 is included on a condition "Hide Multiple".
Field 1 is included on a condition "Show" (Single).
The setup above will most likely caused conflicts in your conditions. So the best practice is this, if you are using "Show Multiple" to one field, make sure you are also use the same on the other fields if they are related to one another. It's alright if "Show Multiple" only shows 1 field, it does not require to be more than 1.
It might be true that the form's length is one reason why the form is loading slowly, but I believe the conflicting conditions are also a major factor. My colleagues also mentioned about the number of widgets that you have.
- afckredietenAnswered on December 04, 2015 at 03:36 PM
OK, now I’m really confused.
I have only ONE heeft u een vennootschap NEE hide type vennootschap, the one the beginning off the form, this because I thought that doing it with hide would work, after the yes show... did not work. ALL the others use heeft u vennootschap yes, then show
Here are som printscreens
i've got 7 screens like this
in total. For applicant main job, bijberoep, for partner main job/bijberoep, for co applicant main job/bijberoep, for partner co-applicant and so one.
It's easy to only point at the one which is set at hide, but the others don't work neither. as far I can see there not in conflict with other rules, because I always use show options before this questions
There is only one place where it's working correct, that's on Werk & inkomen partner, u werkt als zelfstandige, -> heeft u een vennootschap-> it shows type vennootsch when it's supposed to.
All the other (7 in total) are not working, all with the show condition set.
Now, what concerns the conflicts? Sorry I don't see any? (I’m not a pro)
but I always try to work with the show condition
I check and counted exactly 7 hide conditions on the 134 conditions in total.
Ok, I see the point, I changed them all. This is the form
But without any difference in speed, in not working of the problem question
heeft u vennootschap and type vennootschap, these are still not working as it should.
What concerns conflicts, I recheck and do not see any conflict, each answer has one condition of showing a block of questions, it could be that there are somewhere one or two fields that are shown twice (Ja Nee questions) but besides that everything seems normal and not in conflict with each other
2. The number of widgets?
You guys keep repeating that I have a lot of widgets. I-count tem.
I have 18 input masks widgets, which I use for currency € (after consulting the helpdesk for it)
Will the replacing of this by a normal field have such an effect?
I have 2 configurable list widgets, and one captcha.
Is this so MANY as you guys keeps repeating? on 549 form fields
Ok I changed them, I removed besides the config list every input mask and captcha
See this form, ther are I think 4 widgets left
no changes in speed or behavior of fields, still problems with update form fields and heeft u een vennotschap.
So I would propose to not refer to standard comments as you have to many widgets
3. what you mean with collapse form instead of the different rules.
You need to talk with your coll. because it was originally set with collapse blocks.
But a colleague of you advised me to remove them because they had a negative impact on speed/loading time. I even resonded that I didn’ understand that the 25 collaps forms (aprox) would represent 80 to 100 conditions, but the answer was that the use of collaps form was slowing down the form.??????
I can show you an old form with collaps forms, so you see that I was using it. Now the final form is an other form interlay from the collaps form one, so using this again would mean a lot of work. And like you see I removed the widgets, I removed hide conditions and the form didn’t work any fasters, of correct with the problem questions, so I guess that after making the changes back to collaps form use will not effect the problems? You can try if you want, I already invested such time in following youre guys advice without effect that I have no desire to redo it.
But to give you an idea and a reaction
The speed issue, I removed the formpart co-applicant what resulted in
Aprox 360 fields instead of 549, and almost the half of conditions, but the form isn’t a lot faster.
Ok the speed is one thing, but for going live I really need to get the conditions work
So how can I get the addresses to update in the rest of the form
How can I get the Heeft u een vennootschap correctly working
- JotForm SupportjonathanAnswered on December 04, 2015 at 04:31 PM
I would suggest we stay on the original topic of this thread which was about a condition not working...
I am sorry, but I am also confused and lost trying to understand the actual issue on the subject.
Can you please try it in numbered breakdown so that we can be guided as well in finding a solution?
Try like this...
#1 Selecting field x should hide field y
#2 Selecting field x should show field y
#3 so on so forth...
Having hundreds of conditions rules on the same form can be very difficult to manage and maintain. And will usually have tendency to break due to conflicting rule/s.
Usually, the suggestion is to use multiple forms instead and isolate or group each functionality and features. It will be simpler to manage the condition rules if they are at minimal.
Hope this help as well. We will wait for your updated response on this.
- afckredietenAnswered on December 04, 2015 at 04:39 PM
Ok i'll give it another go.
But working with different forms is not that simple for this kind of applications.
1. i need personal info for the main applicant for a loan. personal, work and finance, married or not, if married or living together all the same info from the partner of this person.
2. the only thing i think i can split is the co-applicant, because in reality this will not happen a lot.
But the main issue why i work with all in one, is tha there no way to link to other forms. I mean when i have someone alone i can use a short form without the info from the partner.
But when this person is married, i already have the double of information. So i don't now how i can do this with seperate forms.
The problems is also that all the submissions need to be put in one MAil, for a verry ancient way of import into an financial erp system (no structure no xml or other type of structure, just plain text)
Ok, i will suggest at my client to work with different forms, but if you have suggestions to split my form (besides the co-applicant mede aanvrager)....
- JotForm SupportBDAVIDAnswered on December 04, 2015 at 06:53 PM
So, for what I see, the issue is not longer "fields not showing based on conditions":
A way to split forms, would be by asking first the personal information, and redirect the personal information to another form based on the answer, you may consider this guide: http://www.jotform.com/help/97-How-to-Save-Forms-and-Continue-Later
- afckredietenAnswered on December 06, 2015 at 05:08 AM
The client is not happy with split form.
But, this is what i did.
First i removed the last 2or 3 pages (the part mede aanvrager in the form here above)
then i removed all the conditions, so i only had a form with questions. This form i removed questions, merged question, reformulate .... and as proposed i use collaps form for showing blocks. NO hide functionality only show.
i went from 549 questions and 134 conditions and 12 pages to
34 conditions and 209 fields. and 5 pages
This makes a huge difference in loading speed.
BUT the update form fields ARENT working neither.
I have one source adress, that from the applicant and than
2 times for work applicant (aanvrager) and 3 times for the partner (wife/husband) home adress, and 2X for his/her business questions.
So you can't say that this is becouse there are to many conditions, or to many fields i checked youre templates and there others with a more than 150fields and 34 conditions is not a lot.
Normally there are no conflicts in conditions as far as i can see.
Now the funny is, the first update condition, are all set on the same manner. Calculated field is set on A-Z (instead of 0-9) see advice above, and in the advanced option the optiion use text is marked.
The form i made is https://form.jotformeu.com/53346323332347
I even tested a cloned form, with NO conditions and only 1 update set, and even that didn't work?
SO this has no relations with number of fields, number of conditions.... Sorry there is something wrong on the code site of things.
Also i had yesterday quite a few times the V8 error, that i couldnt open no form at all from my account.
I urgently ask a solution, i did all the work to have less fields, less conditions, .... But nothing seems to work.
And the idea of working with split forms, as BDAVID said in the latest reaction of jotform, is not working for us. One i need to prepopulate quite a few fields. And proposing a demo where One or two fields are prepopulated is one thing, but there a lot of fields that i need to prepolate each time.
- afckredietenAnswered on December 06, 2015 at 05:33 AM
Cloned form, removed all conditions, cloned it again
and now i only have 5 update form fields attached to the question Is uw zaak gevestigd op hetzelfde adres als uw thuisadres on page 3
so normally considering all the tips i recieved from you guys this should work?
this are ALL the conditions in this form
All these conditions are set like this
This is like you guys said i needed to do
Source (adres fields) form live on page 2
I typed my adress (example) street, housenumber, bus, zipcode, city/stad
and in page 3 are the update conditions....
So here only street and postcode prepoluated copied from the source?
So, no conflit in condtions on this form, or what so ever.
I will now make a blank form with only a couple of fields and simulate this update form field, i'm sure that they will not work.
- JotForm SupportWelvinAnswered on December 06, 2015 at 07:57 AM
I would like to know if the original issue about the show/hide conditions is already fixed? Because you are now into the update a field conditions thing.
As for the update to field, that is because the references in your conditions are incorrect. I have numbered them and look at it in the conditions and then:
As you could see, the numbers aren't the same so this means that you are using a different field. I think the best way would be to do it this way, number the fields and then setup the conditions so this way, you can visibly check what fields to choose.
You can remove the number in the fields after setting it up. The labels aren't a problem since the conditions will update it automatically.
Here's a cloned version of your form showing the conditions are working: https://form.jotform.com/53392706460961.
How's that? Let us know.
- afckredietenAnswered on December 06, 2015 at 08:35 AM
Sorry, i posted this on the wrong thread, i have a thread where i have AND the show/hide problem and the update form problem.
The show/hide of this thread was not really resolved, but isnt any longer an issue becouse i changed the questions so that i don't need the show option any more on that part of the form.
in the other thread, i'm already more than a weak trying to have a solutions for the update form fields.
Ok, you did it now on the test form where i only have this condition, i will try it on the form i need for goiing live. Hopfully it works there as well.
- JotForm SupportJanAnswered on December 06, 2015 at 09:57 AM
I hope it works on your live form. On behalf of my colleagues, you're welcome. Let us know if you need our help. Thank you.