Momentum Episode 26:
Customer Success With Kat Wittman

What's the one department at any company that can make or break a customer's experience more than any other? It's not sales or marketing, it's not product or development, rather it's the underappreciated role of customer success and support teams.

These unsung heroes are the key touch point for countless customers, tasked with educating them, addressing their concerns, and ultimately making sure they stick around.

Today we'll be interviewing Jotform's very own Enterprise customer success manager Kat Whitman on everything that working in customer success entails.

Welcome to Momentum, a podcast by Jotform where we talk about the technology, productivity tips, insights, and best practices that help us move forward in business and in life. Let's get started.

All right, we are live. Welcome to the show everybody. My name is Elliot, your host, and I am joined today by Enterprise customer success manager Kat Whitman. Kat, welcome to the show.

Thank you, so great to have you.

Thank you. I'm personally very excited for this episode. I've been wanting to do a customer success or support themed episode for a while because I think there's a lot to unpack sort of behind the scenes of what goes into that.

Do you want to start though by talking just a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today?

Yeah, so I traditionally went into marketing. I have an English background as well with writing and those just kind of went hand in hand.

But I started in retail customer service and then went remote and did customer service that way, inbox management and all of that.

I loved it. I love the customer facing thing and with marketing, with my last position we had a great team but I wasn't able to have that customer interaction on a daily basis which I craved and really missed.

So Jotform Enterprise, especially doing the customer success, it gives me a chance to really have that customer facing element which I love.

Because you guys really are like the front line warriors. I mean, you do have to interact with customers on a daily basis.

Yeah, and that's like a draw for you?

Yeah, and I love for customer success too, we have the Zoom calls so it's face to face which is really great to engage and really build that customer relationship which I love. I'm very happy with that.

That's awesome. So let's talk through that a little bit. Like you mentioned the Zoom calls, but walk us through sort of a day in the life of being customer success at Jotform.

What goes into a typical work day for you? What does that look like? What are your responsibilities?

That is different every day and that's the thing I think I love most about it because I kind of consider it like solving mysteries.

So if I hop on a call with a user and they have this thing, they're like I just can't get this to work, I can't figure this out, or what am I doing wrong, or how can I make this better, it's like solving a mystery and finding something that you can do to improve their processes.

It could be anything. We have users in the health spectrum, then we have users in field service and all of these different users across a ton of different industries doing a ton of different things with the forms, the tables, sign, and all of this.

For me, I typically wake up, go and sit at my desk and usually have calls in the morning, Zoom calls, and then follow-ups in the afternoons where I'm getting back to people and saying hey, this is what I figured out for you.

No days are ever the same. It's always something new and I love that. Oh, it's a unique problem.

Yeah, that's interesting how you do talk to customers basically for your entire job.

Obviously at some point you have to really become an expert on the product as well. Did you have to go through a particularly stringent onboarding or anything like that because you have to be the go-to resource for everyone when they're coming with questions?

Yeah, I got into Jotform standard. I started on Jotform.com in September 2020. We call that our BSG account.

We were in a period of growth and for me, I'm one of those people that if I go into software I can pick it up really quickly.

I'd like to think I am. I went into it and it's just such an easy platform.

That was prior to sign, prior to teams, so I just had gone in and they said make a form and do this and show us what you know for coding and all of that.

A lot of it was self-taught but then as we've grown so much and our team expanded even on the BSG side, we had lots of trainings and team leads that were fantastic that you could go to with anything.

We have a really great way of communicating even on the BSG side where you can reach out for help with anything. They have a lot of new hire nurturing.

If you're a new hire, you have like a 10-year agent that is going to be your point of contact. I was fortunate enough to be that point of contact later on.

That was really great. There's a lot of support and a lot of empowerment because it is such a great product, easy to use but there are rabbit holes you can get into.

We have empowering people and leaders that really help with that. It can get quite rigorous but it's a fun tool to use on your own as well.

Do you find that most of these solutions you're providing are simple? Is it just like oh you just have to go and do this or does it get really complicated at times?

It depends. Some of them I'm like oh yeah, no you just toggle this on or off and they're like oh oops or it's like a typo or something's case sensitive or something like that.

Sometimes it's a network problem or something. But sometimes I might make it more complicated for myself. I like to dive into the weeds.

There can be times where I do that and we've got multiple steps to go through but all in all the steps themselves are very straightforward and usually pretty intuitive because we are a drag and drop form builder.

Most things are intuitive, it's just a matter of knowing how to set certain things.

Absolutely. So let's draw back a little bit and this is a question I personally don't know the answer to but I'm asking it.

What is the difference between support and customer success? Because those are two distinct departments here at Jotform and I think at a lot of other companies too.

I always kind of think of them interchangeably. Do you think of them interchangeably? Like now you're customer success, you used to be support. Is there a crossover? What's the difference between the two?

There's definitely a crossover. We have our frontline support which is our amazing team on the front lines. They're on the forums 24/7 answering tickets and threads from all of our different servers.

The customer success team can go into that as well but with customer success we have the privilege of hopping on Zoom calls with them and doing some higher level communication either with engineering, leadership, or really going that extra mile and putting a face to the name.

There's a lot more one-on-one personalized interaction and you really get to build that customer relationship, get to know really unique use cases and work closely with a lot of our users.

It's a little bit different than frontline, a little bit more intensive, a little bit more customer facing but there definitely is some crossover and we have a brilliant frontline team as well.

The main difference is that in customer success you're actually hopping on calls with clients, prospective form builders to help them through their problems.

Generally in support, you submit an online ticket, you get a response like you do XYZ. Customer success kind of takes that to the next level of interaction.

Perfect. I was curious myself, well now I know.

You also participate in our webinars and our inter Jotform Enterprise luncheon learn series which is a relatively new initiative.

Would you say these responsibilities are unique in your role as a customer success manager? Are you the only customer success manager doing things like this? How did you get slotted into these very public customer facing roles?

I volunteered there you go. Right now I'm the only one that does it. We might have some fresh new faces coming here and there but for me I think it's just I really enjoy the product and I get passionate about it.

I think that is maybe a little bit more engaging than just the monotone.

Oh definitely. I really enjoy working with the marketing team too. I was in marketing before so it kind of marries the two which I really love.

I volunteered and I love the initiative. I think it's great. For now I'm the only one who does it but we'll see in the future.

It's awesome that you volunteered. I can say already your webinars and lunch and learn series are great. You know what you're doing.

I work with people on the marketing team obviously and they call you a lifesaver helping with all the demos and everything like that. We're definitely grateful for you.

That bridges the gap a little bit into what are the role goals and departments that you most commonly work with at Jotform? Because obviously you need to know the product really well.

I'm guessing you have to have some liaison with product development but also marketing as you just mentioned. What are your typical crossovers cross-departmentally?

Engineering is the main one. They are fantastic. We collaborate with product ops and engineering operations for Enterprise specifically.

We have an amazing contact who is kind of our liaison for that. Marketing absolutely.

I'm lucky that I am one of the CSMs that gets to do that quite a bit and of course frontline support but we also go into BSG.

We talk a lot to product as well, just kind of dip our toes into as much as we can.

We also talk a lot with security and compliance especially with HIPAA. We have SOC 2 compliance now so just understanding what that means and what it means for encrypted forms and anything new that's coming up.

We frequently chat with them and consult them because you can get questions on anything. Jotform offers a lot of features but you can get questioned about any one of them at any time.

You really do need to know how often just out of curiosity would you say you know it off the top of your head versus oh actually let me get back to you because I'm not sure if you still get those moments?

Oh yeah, all the time. I like to call myself specialized because I focus a lot on approvals, teams, tables, and the different functionalities because there's just so much you can do.

Sometimes if I haven't spent a lot of time on something else, I'm gonna have to go offline and get back to you.

I definitely have those moments a lot especially with new products and new improvements coming out.

It's usually pretty easy to find because I'm able to know where I'm going most of the time.

Obviously it's better to have someone wait for an answer and give them the right one than to give them the wrong one.

I'm sure they understand and probably even respect that a little bit more.

To kind of pull back even more, why is the role of customer success or support so critical to a company’s success? Why is it so important?

Oh, well I might be a little biased but I think it's a pillar of every business out there whether it's brick and mortar or going remotely.

We saw the importance of maintaining that brick and mortar experience in an online way when the pandemic hit.

A brilliant customer support and then taking it to the next level, the customer success team can bring back that engagement, that personable element so your customers are engaged.

The customer relationship is beyond all in my opinion. Marketing supports that, sales bring them in, and everything else is to nurture that customer relationship but it starts at the customer success level.

It's like a relationship. If you don't feel heard, if you don't have your voice heard, you don't feel like a partner, then it fails often.

We really bring that nurturing and let the customer's voice be heard. We're advocates for them, not only for the product but for our customers as well.

I think we play an integral part in that journey.

That's a great answer because we've all had experiences with support where it can make or break your experience with a company.

You can have a great product but if you have a poor experience with support, you will become soured on that.

If you look at reviews often, they cite support or customer success both positively and negatively because often it's what causes someone to leave a review.

You can really make up ground with a positive support or customer success story or conversely lose a lot of ground.

It's really responsible for helping the customer stick around. Being able to go the extra mile to make them feel welcome is so important in that journey.

I agree. If you go into a store and you're not greeted right away or acknowledged, you just walk right out and don't spend your money there or you're not going back.

I think that's extrapolated into an online way making the customer feel heard and hopefully stick around at the end of the day.

For a company the size of Jotform, how big is the support or customer success team?

That is a good question. I believe we are growing. We have several different agents across Canada, the United States, and within the UK time zones.

We cover kind of all the time zones right now. I believe we are just under 10 but growing.

Our frontline support has grown significantly too, I believe over 25. I don't know the exact numbers but that's a ballpark.

We're growing and we have really the best of the best frontline and customer success teams.

It's a fantastic team, close knit, communicative, and our leadership really puts on a good example for us too.

We're a smallish maybe medium small business size at this point but having a couple dozen support and customer success representatives already goes to show the investment companies can and should put towards this.

I remember interviewing our CEO Idekin. He said in the early days he was the support for Jotform.

He told me that was honestly the most important part he considered in his role in those early days was customer success and helping people.

He said this is what keeps people around. We've grown hundreds of people later and now have an entire department with wonderful people like yourself making customers feel heard.

I want to circle back to something else. You're an Enterprise customer success manager. Why does Enterprise get its own dedicated customer success team and then there's the frontline support team?

Enterprise just offers that extra level that Jotform.com doesn't. We have more collaboration, your own dedicated server environment, and quite a few differences.

We're building on an amazing product but for organizations at our Enterprise level or those that need something extra like more users, dedicated server environment, white labeling, there's extra requirements.

You need that extra level of support because it's a whole new environment and level of customer.

We want to make sure they're supported, onboarded, and using Jotform to run their businesses. They know they have us anytime to fall back on.

It's super important because it's just a different tier.

That is one of the calling cards of Jotform Enterprise specifically: you get a dedicated customer success team who will jump on a call with you at any point and walk you through things.

Would you say that's normal with most technology or SaaS companies?

I know it's pretty rare for a company the size of Jotform, even Jotform Enterprise.

From what I've experienced, even for martech, it's rare and you don't get that face to face interaction as much.

Usually it's somebody behind a chat bubble or email. Having that option is super comforting and useful.

We are really unique in that we have that on demand. It's a differentiator because it feels so much more reassuring to hop on and get face to face instead of communicating with a bubble.

Some account managers are scheduled out or have full schedules but with us you press a button and you're speaking to somebody very shortly or one of our customer success managers on Zoom.

It's unique and extremely valuable.

As a prospective client especially for large organizations on an Enterprise level, how significantly does a customer's support or customer success department factor into making a purchasing decision?

It's a big one. We often get asked when I'm in demos with our sales team, a big question we usually round out the demo with is what kind of support do we get?

Are we going to be empowered on using this widget or that? The answer is a resounding yes.

I think it can be a make or break. I might be a little biased but it's a massive asset and reassurance that we have that level of support.

These are demos to prospective clients who haven't signed yet and want to see functionality. You're often on those calls?

Yes, often on them or if there's a particular use case that's more technical, I hop on those calls for sure.

You spend your days talking to prospective and current clients?

Yes. For current clients, they have a Zoom button in their support portals to request a Zoom call and they can hop on with whoever is available during set hours.

My colleague Staff usually gets them because I'm typically in demos in the mornings. She's a fantastic resource and we've heard nothing but good things about the Zoom on demand.

Sounds like both of you stay busy.

What do you find most challenging and most rewarding about your role if you had to boil it down?

Honestly, I don't want to say they're the same thing. No day's ever the same. There's always lots of things to juggle, questions, features, mysteries to solve.

Making sure we listen to and fully understand the use case can be another challenge.

Sometimes something can be pretty complex. We have smart forms, conditional logic, tables that can do so much.

The challenging part is figuring out how to condense what I'm going to send you into something not just blabbing but clear and helpful.

But it's completing that and having them say this is great or I haven't thought of that or I missed that and knowing I helped improve their day or business processes or saved them time.

That is incredibly rewarding.

Are you ever still surprised to see how companies and people find ways to use Jotform? Like use cases you never would have thought of?

Oh no, I am still absolutely surprised. Even today on a call, I'm like can you send a screenshot of that because it's so cool.

It's through integrations and Zapier, there's so much to do. Our API capabilities are full of Easter eggs.

I'm constantly surprised.

Do you have any interesting stories, insights, anecdotes, or experiences that stand out that someone would find interesting during your time in customer success?

I think where I live it's quite rural and I'm very remote but lucky to have good internet.

My favorite is the offline forms. We have someone in agriculture who takes photos of each of his cows and uploads them to the form.

He puts their names, condition, if they need their feet done or anything like that. It's all offline and then it syncs when he gets back home.

He's got pictures and inventory of cows. That's one of my favorite things because it shows such niche examples you can use Jotform for.

Every time I say inventory of cows I laugh because it seems funny but to him it's integral. He needs that data to not lose one of his girls.

That's one of my favorite stories. I have lots of others but they're long.

I'm very grateful that Jotform could potentially help save cows. That brings warmth to my heart.

If you had to summarize and bring it all home, what would you say is the key essential ingredient to customer success?

I think it's about having your voice heard in an engaging way and making sure you have an advocate for you.

I'm very proud to say our customer success team, frontline support, and BSG support do that brilliantly.

At the end of the day, we're advocates who communicate, juggle everything, and make all the different lines work.

That's really contributed to where we are today.

Is there anything we missed or didn't cover today that you'd like to hit on?

No, not really. I could talk for hours about Jotform every day, even just approvals where I could say did you know it does this by the way.

We offer something so unique. You can try it on the free BSG and then come over to Enterprise. Customer support alone is worth it.

Hopefully we've covered everything.

This has been remarkable. Thank you for taking time from talking to customers to talk to me. This was really insightful and peeled back the curtain on customer success departments. It's pretty incredible.

Thank you for your time today, Kat.

Thank you. I'm honored.