Momentum Episode 5:
The Future of No-Code with Arthur West

Maintaining momentum, digital systems are all around us playing an ever-increasing role in how we work and interact, but as our online ecosystem becomes even more complex and our digital needs become even more intricate, how do we set ourselves up for success?

Does every company need an army of software coding experts to create the customized digital functionality your organization needs? Well, not with the advent of no code platforms. If anything, navigating this whole process has just gotten easier, so let's talk about it.

Hey everyone, welcome to Momentum, a podcast by Jotform where we talk about technology, productivity tips, best practices, and strategic insights that help us move forward in business and in life. I'm Elliot, your host, and today I'm here with Art West, CEO of No Code Devs, to talk to us about the no code movement. Welcome to the show, Art, it's great to have you.

Yeah, thank you, Elliot. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to have you on.

I think we maybe start today by painting the broad picture. I imagine a lot of our listeners are familiar with the term no code since this is a Jotform podcast and Jotform itself is a no code tool, but there's really a lot to discuss and unpack in this space. So maybe first tell us a bit about yourself and your background with No Code Devs before we dive into what no code really means and what it entails for industries around the world.

Yeah, for sure. I made a project manager by trade and I've been working with no code and automation tools for probably the past three or four years to help automate and streamline certain processes within my job. Sometime last year, I sort of walked into the no code community and had this aha moment because what I was doing in my day job really lined up with what I was seeing in the no code space—process automation and app building without programming languages. So I thought this is really great, I'm going to immerse myself in the community and never looked back from there.

The tools that started to come to life in the no code space were very much in parallel to the things I needed to solve in my day job. With the growth of these tools, it was critical to stay abreast of everything happening in the space, so I started to aggregate the tools and build this community all around no code.

So it's really just an organic process for you, sort of solving a real world thing you were dealing with. No Code Devs is really cool to see how fast it's grown, especially your Twitter following, which has just blown up. It's a really cool platform.

That's interesting, it's not necessarily something you set out from the onset to accomplish but it just came as part of your duties. I think that speaks to the practicality of no code tools in general, which brings us to the broad question: what is no code for someone who's maybe heard of it but doesn't really know what it means? I've heard it described as a movement. When did it all become popularized and why?

Yeah, I think that's accurate to say. It is definitely considered to be a movement at this point. If you look at Google Trends, it lines up almost exactly with the pandemic last year. I don't know if that's coincidence or by design, but that's when it started to gain a lot of traction in sub-communities and social media.

Some of these no code tools have been around prior to when it became popular, but it really started to pick up steam around the beginning of last year. No code is essentially a way for programmers and non-programmers to create software and applications using visual tools rather than traditional programming languages.

So that would be how I best define no code: through the use of graphical tools rather than code. Then you can get people to create these processes digitally without extensive knowledge of coding and everything that comes along with that.

You mentioned there were no code tools out there before it became popular. What would you say is one of the first real big names to break through the no code space that a lot of people would recognize?

There's a bunch. When you hear no code, a lot of people default to Bubble and Webflow, which are the big two on design and backend. There are other big names in automation like Zapier, TigerMates, and Glide. These companies had been around prior to the no code movement but really started to break out as the tools became more robust and marketing efforts into the no code community emerged.

Look at Jotform, which started in 2006. It's obviously a no code tool. We weren't the first per se, but public interest hadn't latched on to what no code can unlock and its implications for businesses across the world.

There's also another movement called low code. What's the difference between no code and low code, and what's the divide between those two?

No code is just using graphical user interfaces to build whatever you're building, whether it's an app, website, or automation. Low code is a hybrid where you build some graphical user interface on the front end but need to write some code to connect the front end and back end. So low code requires at least a minimal amount of coding understanding, whereas no code does not.

Who really is this no code movement for? What companies leverage the power that no code unlocks the most? Is it only tech startups or are there certain industries that cater to what no code does?

No code is for everyone. It started very much in the founder and startup space but is progressing towards SMBs and enterprise. It can be useful for anyone, whether you're a startup, non-profit, or an employee within an organization. Jotform uses no code tools internally for tools and processes. There's a lot of use cases.

I think people usually affiliate no code with tech companies, but a lot of tools people use might not even realize are no code tools. For example, Jotform is a no code tool. No code is not just for technology companies; it's for everyone because everyone needs online functionalities.

We use many tools internally, from Trello to Asana, and our developers use tools more in the low code spectrum in addition to full code. We support many integrations with these platforms. No code is really an ecosystem in itself, especially in technology but also relating to all users.

Narrowing in on the tech industry, what implications does no code have for the future of tech startups, apps, and website builders?

No code is a huge win for the tech industry. There's chatter that no code isn't good for developers, but most developers agree it's good because it speeds up development. It allows faster and cost-effective development, letting companies test ideas quickly and get MVPs faster before hiring development teams.

It empowers employees with creative ideas to implement solutions themselves instead of submitting requests to development teams. This flips the switch, allowing employees to build workflows and offer solutions to their teams, opening many doors and placing power back to the people, enabling non-technical people to implement creative ideas.

No code breaks down barriers between creative outlets and technical execution. Coding an app or website requires a lot of work and knowledge, but no code tools let people without coding skills create digital solutions. Early on, there might have been stigma around no code tools as shortcuts, but these tools are not cheating; they help corporations and individuals and have gathered momentum.

Let's drill down to specifics. What are some of the best no code tools out there?

It depends on your project requirements. There's no one-size-fits-all tool. For example, Bubble and Webflow are popular. Webflow is great for front-end with a low learning curve, requiring some CSS understanding. Bubble is a robust full-stack platform with a strong community. Automation tools like Zapier and Integromat connect software products and are essential in the no code space.

Back end no code tools like Xano, Backendless, and Airtable are important for data management and scalability, especially for medium to large businesses. There are many other tools like Notion, Coda, Adalo, Glide, and of course Jotform, which is huge for workflow automation, form approvals, and spreadsheets.

No one solution fits all unless you have a very specific use case. You probably need several tools. On this podcast, we've talked about building your tech stack, which is supplemental to this. You need to identify what tools are right for your projects and what you need to accomplish.

How do you start to decide and pick the best no code tools for your needs?

It's a tough question. The best thing you can do is have good project requirements and immerse yourself in the community. Twitter and Reddit are very active in the no code space. Product forums for tools like Webflow or Jotform are great places to post high-level overviews of your project and get feedback on whether a tool can solve your problem.

It's good advice. The no code movement has a surprisingly strong and passionate community. The engagement on No Code Devs Twitter shows how invested people are. You can almost crowdsource help, which is an excellent recommendation.

Let's clarify some terms like CSS, API, and markup language for those less familiar. Can you elaborate on what these components are from a layman's perspective and how they function within no code?

There's been some pushback on the term no code, mostly from the development community, because there's code behind no code. It's important to understand what's behind the curtain. For example, CSS helps with design, and APIs connect software products like Jotform and Webflow. Knowing these terms gives you a foundation to understand how no code tools work.

Most no code tools allow you to change the look and feel by editing CSS directly, which is a gray area between no code and code but important for unlocking full potential. Jotform has support guides on using CSS for customization, and it's usually easy to find information even without deep knowledge.

There's a little unsavory association with no code because it implies no work, but that's not true. You have to be strategic and intentional when building with no code. The space moves quickly, so understanding company history, support, and community is vital. Choose the right tools and get involved before starting to ensure long-term success.

Where do you see the future of no code leading? What's the next step and what limitations are being removed?

As the space grows from solo founders to medium and large organizations, challenges arise like multiplayer access, version control, security, and scalability. Many no code tools lack multiplayer capabilities, making teamwork difficult. Companies are working on improving these aspects.

There's also a movement towards internal tools. While customer-facing apps are common, internal tools are becoming popular in the no code space.

It's exciting to think about the untapped potential and what new tools might emerge in the next decades that could make current tools obsolete.

If someone is excited about no code and wants to get involved or learn more, where should they start?

The community is strong and active on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook groups, and product forums for tools like Webflow, Bubble, and Glide. Immersing yourself in these communities, even just reading, helps you grasp what people are building, problems, and limitations. YouTube channels and company content are also great resources.

Follow No Code Devs on Twitter for videos and updates. There are many good communities and founders out there you can find with an internet search. Just get involved and dip your toe in the water.

Is there anything else you'd like to add or any last tidbits of wisdom?

Just because it's no code doesn't mean no work. Proper planning and requirements are essential to avoid barriers similar to traditional development. Be strategic and intentional, do your research, and understand the fast-moving landscape. Choose tools with good support and community, and ask questions before starting to ensure the product will work for you long-term.

Thanks so much for coming on the show, Art. I've learned a lot and hope listeners have too. Please check out No Code Devs and other resources mentioned. Don't forget Jotform is also a no code tool, so if you use us, you're technically a no coder. Thanks again, and we'll catch you next time.

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun. Take care.